Bill 202 – Mandatory Reporting of Child Pornography Act (Debate)
April 12, 2010
The Deputy Chair: Are there any comments, questions, or amendments to be offered with respect to this bill? The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek.
Mrs. Forsyth: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m pleased to speak to you and other members of the Assembly regarding Bill 202, the Mandatory Reporting of Child Pornography Act. I was encouraged to hear the government members express their support to combat child pornography and to give the public and law enforcement communities another tool to rid our homes and our communities of a truly vile and evil form of child sexual exploitation and abuse. I appreciate the feedback that we have been given so far. One comment that was brought forward was that the government was concerned about a bill that had a proclamation date. Frankly, I cannot see how the idea of a proclamation date has become the issue that the PC government has made it into. If you don’t have a plan, you fail. If you don’t have a date to focus government staff, law enforcement, and agencies on, then you also fail. As my friend from Calgary-Glenmore is so fond of saying: if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
Without a proclamation date, Mr. Chair, this government is simply trying to look like they are supporting measures that will fight child pornography, but they are not actually committed to putting a law in place. This is the intent of what their so-called concerns are, and that is what Albertans see them for.
Now, I’m sure that they will start to say soon that they want flexibility. Well, I will show you once again that I’m willing to be flexible to get a law passed that Albertans will support. I am willing to be flexible to get a law passed that will protect Alberta’s children from sexual deviants. I’m willing to be flexible so that the PC government can show Albertans that it will support a bill that makes sense and can be implemented smoothly, effectively, and quickly. In keeping with this desire to get a law passed that will be implemented, I am coming before you today to propose an amendment t Bill 202. Mr. Chair, I’d like to propose a friendly amendment to Bill 202 that states that Bill 202 will be implemented no later than March 31, 2011. This gives the government no more excuses. It gives the government a full year to put this bill into effect.
Since we last debated this bill, even more cases have come forward, horrible cases where children have been abused for the sexual gratification of some pervert. Recently we learned of an international child pornography ring in 20 countries where 73 people were charged. In the Edmonton Sun a Crown prosecutor noted that at any given time in Alberta 10 to 20 adults are before the courts, charged with online luring, for enticing a child to either pose nude or meet for sex. Also, an additional 70 to 80 people are before the courts . . .
The Deputy Chair: Hon. member, are you moving an amendment?
Mrs. Forsyth: Yes.
The Deputy Chair: Okay. We’ll have it passed around.
Mrs. Forsyth: Oh, it has been passed.
The Deputy Chair: Okay. Hon. member, please proceed. We’re speaking to amendment A2.
Mrs. Forsyth: Yes. Thank you. An additional 70 to 80 people are before the courts for possessing or manufacturing child pornography. This is just in Alberta, and this is just those targeting our children. This is what needs to be known, Mr. Chair. It is time for the government to stop playing games with a bill that is supported by law enforcement, child protection advocates, and, quite frankly, the public. I would like to put the motion on the table, and I’d like to truly see where the government stands.
Thank you.
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Mrs. Forsyth: Well, Mr. Chair, the original proclamation date was July 31. During the debate it was said that we didn’t have enough time to do that.
You know, Mr. Chair, what I find truly, truly amazing – and I was a minister of the Crown for six years, and I know how easily things can be done. I guess one must ask the Minister of Justice how many lawyers she has in her department. How many meetings does it take? Who opposes it? Who do we actually need to consult? All of that has been done.
You know, I respect my colleague from Battle River-Wainwright. I like my colleague from Battle River-Wainwright. We’ve had this discussion. You know what? I have no problem if the Assembly decides to defeat the March 31, 2011. I have no problem with that. Then if he is talking about the summer to consult, we could have the member bring an amendment forward for September 1, 2010. I’ll be right up there with you, buddy.
Mr. Chair, I’ve been around a long time. I’m just waiting to get some stats from my research to find out how many private member’s bills have been in this Assembly and, quite frankly, how many have been passed. That has been very, very few. I know that my colleague the Minister of Justice supports this bill. I sat down with her in November. I sat down with the former Solicitor General at the same time, in November, and they both supported it. At that time they both indicated that this bill was important to have because our federal government has been dicking around with it for months and months, in fact, since 2002. If my colleague from Battle River-Wainwright wants to bring an amendment forward, wants to make that date September 1, I’ll be the first one to stand up and support it. They didn’t like December 31, 2010.
The other thing that’s very interesting is that there is nothing stopping an amendment from coming before this House in the fall session, saying: we want to make an amendment on this particular piece of legislation for September 1, 2010. I’m sure we’ll all stand up and applaud.
Mr. Chair, we’re trying to work with the government. Quite frankly, I don’t trust them on their private bill process and getting bills done. I’d be more than willing to work with my colleague from across the way, and if he wants to say September 1 – I know he’s a father of two young guys, and I know he in his heart supports this. So if we’re going to argue about a date, then have the Member for Battle River-Wainwright bring forward a date, and if he says September 1, 2010, I’ll buy him a beer.
Thank you.
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The Deputy Chair: On amendment A3 the hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek.
Mrs. Forsyth: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I listened very intently, and I find the whole conversation very interesting. Since1972 we’ve had 1,411 private members’ bills go through this Assembly, with less than 50 per cent of them receiving royal assent. I guess what is more amazing to me than anything is the fact that how things change when you’re with the government and you’re not with the government. I had lengthy conversations with the Minister of Justice, and I had lengthy conversations with the Solicitor General, and I don’t pull these things out of my head, Mr. Chair, in regard to dates and in regard to support on this. You know, I talked at length to both ministers when I was with the government, and frankly they were the ones that encouraged me to bring the bill forward, and they were the ones that encouraged me and helped me draft this bill. In fact, it’s amazing when you have government members’ research and you still have copies of that documentation, and they talk about the fact of the length of time it’s taken the federal government to get to this serious situation.
We’ve tried to work within the confines of what you can as a small opposition, and we’ve tried to work with the government. I remember the Member for Battle River-Wainwright calling me in regard to how the private members’ bills committee had actually looked at this bill. They supported this bill. They didn’t like the date of this particular bill at the time, which was July 31 in the private member’s bill. I said: “Okay. Well, I’m fine with that. How about if we put a date on that particular piece of legislation?” I know exactly how this government works – exactly how this government works.
Mr. Anderson: Or doesn’t work.
Mrs. Forsyth: Or doesn’t work. If this bill is so important and they care so much about the children in this province, then bring the darn thing through as a government bill. I’ll be the first one to stand up in September and support them on this particular piece of legislation, and I’ll be going out and telling all Albertans how important it is this government cares about the children of this province. You know, they talk about the regulations, and they talk about the identity process. I had lengthy conversations with the Minister of Justice and the previous Solicitor General in regard to that process. They wanted that left open so through regulations they could identify who they would use, whether it was the ICE team or whether it was Cybertip or one of those places. Hey, I’m not the minister. That’s their responsibility, and I was okay with that. Not having a proclamation date bothers me, but we have a lot of this on record, so that’s good, and I’m going to be after the government. The Member for Battle River-Wainwright said: maybe in September we’ll have it. Hallelujah. I’ll look forward to that. We will stand up as a member of our caucus and quite frankly applaud them and support them on that. I’ll listen to the debate, and I’ll continue to hear what they have to say.
We’re put in a very difficult position about supporting the amendment in regard to no proclamation date. But you know the government: they’re only as good as their word. So we’ll listen very carefully to that, and possibly the Solicitor General today will stand up. I’ve got articles from him when there have been busts about how his number one priority is the protection of children. Maybe we’ll see this bill passed in September, or, quite frankly, maybe the Minister of Justice or the Solicitor General or even the minister of children’s services will bring this bill forward under a government bill in October, when we come back to the house.
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Mrs. Forsyth: Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I’m compelled to get up and speak again because I’ve listened very intently. I appreciate what the minister is saying. You know, Minister, you and I worked together when I was the Solicitor General and you were the Minister of Justice, and we had some good times travelling the province and pushing through a lot of things. I remember how adamant you were at all of these FPTs about raising the age of consent.
You know, we have now four provinces that have got this act: Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Ontario, and one other one that doesn’t come to mind. So the lessons are learned in those particular provinces, and I’ve talked to them.
It’s interesting that my former colleague from Peace River is in the paper January 28 saying, “Keeping Alberta’s children safe from those who would prey on them is a vital function of ALERT.” It was after a bust on child exploitation. Then we had the comment about throwing us a bone. Throwing us a bone would have been bringing this legislation forward as a government bill with a proclamation date.
Then he referred to Bill 201, our firemen that are waiting up in the Assembly. Quite frankly, you know, I’ve been around long enough, when the former member Richard Magnus brought forward the original bill. We actually, all three of us, spoke in support of Bill 201. I’m hoping that the firemen get a proclamation date in regard to their bill because I think it’s darn important, supported at work with the firemen in Calgary on the original bill, I think it was, that Calgary-North Hill Richard Magnus did such incredible work on. What’s interesting to me is for the Solicitor General now to sit and talk about a comment my colleague made about eight years and that if I had been on this issue of child pornography eight years ago, it would have probably been passed. Well, let’s backtrack a few years. The Amber Alert I brought forward, first in Canada, and then took it right across the country. The high-risk offender that is in his department right now, doing the thing that was important and monitoring these sex offenders when they’re in our neighbourhood and hurting our children. I don’t see him coming up with anything. I put together the IROC team, the integrated response to organized crime, to deal with all of these issues. You know, I brought in DECA, the Drug-endangered Children Act; PCHIP, the Protection of Children Involved in Prostitution Act. This minister has been there since January. I’d like to know what bright ideas he’s brought forward.
Mr. Chair, I will accept the fact that the government of the day does not like the idea of a proclamation date. I will even accept the fact that on the bill originally it said July 31, and that might have been pushing the envelope a little bit. Then we brought forward an amendment on December 31, 2010. The same member got up and talked about: we need to study this. How many lawyers do they have in this government? How many people have to be consulted on the issue of child pornography? We left the regulations open so that the Solicitor General could talk to his ALERT team and use them, or he could use Cybertip if he wanted. Then we said: “Okay. We’ll go to March 31, 2011.” “No. Can’t be done.” My Battle River- Wainwright colleague over there said: “Okay. We can have this done by September.” I think he said that; I don’t have the Blues in front of me.
You know what we’re going to do, Mr. Chair? We’re going to hold them to their word in September, and I’m looking forward to coming back in the fall session, which is October, I do believe, unless it’s changed again. I’m going to look forward to them bringing forward the regulations. I’m going to look forward to third reading on this particular piece of legislation. I’m even looking forward more to proclamation. I’m going to watch and I’m going to monitor and I’m going to talk to the people that have talked to me on this particular piece of legislation to hold them accountable, especially when the Minister of Education talks about the fact that they’ve done more than any other government in this province. Well, I was chair of that task force. I know what Albertans were telling me. I travelled across this province listening to what Albertans told us. We brought forward a very good, concise report, and I want to thank the team that I travelled with because they worked very hard to make sure that what we were doing would make Alberta probably one of the safest provinces to live in.
We are probably close to running out of time. I’ll look forward to voting on this. I’ll even look forward more to the fact that this government has said that they like this particular piece of legislation. They don’t like the proclamation date on this piece of legislation. They need to do more consulting. They need to talk to more people; I’m not sure whom they’re going to consult. They need to deal with the regulations. Well, the Minister of Justice and the Solicitor General at their next FPT can talk to the provinces, and I would suggest that they talk to the minister responsible in Manitoba, Gord Mackintosh, a great guy. I worked with him when he was the former Solicitor General in Manitoba. He’ll tell them how it’s done, very succinctly and very easily. They can keep us abreast on that.
Thank you.
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